How sure are we he did steroids?

[Gonzo]

Juan Gonzalez is my favorite player. I lived outside Dallas from 1989 to 1993 when i was from age 3-7. He was my idol. I used to have all his baseball cards. I'm 21 now and had the privelage of watching all the Rangers postseason appearances (here in NY unfortunately) even though it was hard to watch.

With all the steroid stuff it seems pretty clear to me he did them. Did this contribute to his injuries? If he didn't have so many injuries he would have been an all-time great. Now it seems like he was just a guy who did steroids and put up some big numbers because of it.

This really pisses me off. The one player who I really looked up to as a kid was cheating the whole time. How do you guys feel about it?

[Gonzaleznut]

I doubt he was juiced up in '92 and '93 when he won the two home run titles.

You can't blame any player who used because major league baseball turned a blind eye to it. They needed to recapture the magic after the strike in '94 and they knew the only way to draw fans back to the ballparks was to have prodigious home run hitters who put up big numbers. McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, Bonds, and even Juan were sucked into that. Players will do anything possible to get to the top and you can't blame them for wanting to be successful.

To compare the 90's with any other era is unfair. Each era in baseball (usually classified into decades), must be assessed independently. It is what it is. Nothing more.

The simple way to look at it is from a peer group standpoint. Was Juan one of the great players of his era when compared with others of his era? Absolutely. Easily a top 5 hitter.

As a reminder, they still inducted Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson to the Hall of Fame even though the mound was raised in the pitching dominant 60's. Were they great already...you bet, but that advantage hyper-inflated all of their numbers. You never hear anyone complaining about that unfair advantage given away by MLB.

Roids simply made already great players put up gaudy numbers. You can't tell me that McGwire, Bonds, and Juan weren't already great before roids...they were. They would have had HoF caliber careers without roids, but they took the chance to get that extra edge to get ahead and baseball did nothing to stop them.

[nosterbor]

you are tired and run down at work, a coworker gives you a pill that they say is a b12 complex. you take it.and gives you a great boost of energy and you feel great!! you drive home an hour later and did'nt come to a complete stop,a cop is behind you and pulls you over,he notice's you look WIRED! YOU TELL HIM YOU TOOK A B12 PILL! you are arrested tested and found to be under the influance of METH! YOU PLEAD & PLEAD YOUR INNOCENT!!! the cop say's tell it to the judge! your wife bails you out then leaves! says your a drug addict.your employer finds out and fires you! the person who gave you the b12 pill does'nt know what your talking about.

YOU ARE GUILTY! GUILTY! GUILTY!
YOU ARE A SERIOUS DRUG ADDICT!!
SCUM!


this is the world we now live in. DEAL WITH IT!

[freddie]

Originally Posted by nosterbor

you are tired and run down at work, a coworker gives you a pill that they say is a b12 complex. you take it.and gives you a great boost of energy and you feel great!! you drive home an hour later and did'nt come to a complete stop,a cop is behind you and pulls you over,he notice's you look WIRED! YOU TELL HIM YOU TOOK A B12 PILL! you are arrested tested and found to be under the influance of METH! YOU PLEAD & PLEAD YOUR INNOCENT!!! the cop say's tell it to the judge! your wife bails you out then leaves! says your a drug addict.your employer finds out and fires you! the person who gave you the b12 pill does'nt know what your talking about.

YOU ARE GUILTY! GUILTY! GUILTY!
YOU ARE A SERIOUS DRUG ADDICT!!
SCUM!


this is the world we now live in. DEAL WITH IT!

Is that a defense of Palmeiro? I am lost as to what you are trying to get across with that rant.

[Gonzaleznut]

I'm with Freddie. What's your point?

[nosterbor]

does it matter who it is about? did juan use roids? prove it!@ did he take something to enhance his performance? we all do! if he had a cup of coffee before a game than he is guilty! was it illegal? NO! was roids at the time? NO! Ryan took advil all the time! illegal? no! perfomance enhancer? you bet! cheating? you bet! every thing we do in our daily lives we use perfomace enhancers! have a smoke,how bout a cup of JO, or a doughnut loaded with sugar? back sore? take an advil! we all cheat! is it illegal? not yet! it will be though. congress is coming up with a fat tax on that big mac!

[nosterbor]

one more thing! put the greatest players in mlb history at each position on one team! then put them in a CUBS uniform! that team would still be a loser!

[freddie]

The cubs entire identity ties into losing. They make more money, have more mystique as long as they stay at Wrigley and continue to lose. The moment they either move to a new field or win the world series, they'll be just another team. The best thing for them would be to make to to the series and lose in seven to the Yankees. Their lovable losers stock would shoot through the roof then.

[nosterbor]

i have no doubt you are correct in that statement.i have been a cub fan all my life!BOO HOO! I ALWAYS SAY I WILL NEVER WATCH THEM AGAIN,BUT I KEEP GOING BACK! ITS LIKE I AM ON A BAD DRUG! they should have rehab for cubs fans!!! in 2003 during the bartman crap i turned of the tv and i did not watch the rest of the game,nor did i watch game 7. i knew they would lose! after big Z was pulled in the 1st game that was it for me this year! every manager the cubs has had has been a MORON!the loveable now is becoming hate!

[Agent Orange]

I wonder the validity of the claims that this player or that player did steroids. It seems you can throw anyone's name into the fire, and all it takes is that little tiny seed of doubt planted in the publics mind to tarnish a persons legacy. Sad really, because the accusation is something that is alleged, and hasn't been proven. Do I think Juan used? Probably and I don't blame him. Greed is a motherfucker.